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THINKING OUT LOUD

RE: 1775 Jan 25

DEED 316-107-210086

Sharon Oddie Brown. July 1, 2009

 

 

I am trying to make sense of this indenture. What we have in this document is the sheriff seizing goods from David OLIVER in 1775 (likely for unpaid rent) as well as a recitation of a lease five years earlier dated January 6, 1770 which had been granted for a term of 21 years from George SHIRLEY to Andrew OLIVER, not to David OLIVER. Hmm. What is the financial and therefore also likely familial relationship between these two men?

 

From other deeds, we know that David OLIVER already held leases in 1765 to two townlands Laragh and Cornacarrow which are both just north of the townland of Creevy. By 1770, David OLIVER was presumably already chasing refinancing. On April 26, 1770, he let 100 acres on the west side of the townland of Laragh, Co. Monaghan as well as some water rights for ₤63 rent/year for 26 years to a Joseph OLIVER, who I presume was his brother.  SEE: http://www.thesilverbowl.com/documents/1770Apr26-OLIVER-OLIVER.html 

 

On July 30, 1770, David OLIVER also let his interests in Laragh & Cornacarrow and also 8 acres at Creevy to Arthur OLIVER for £346.3.8. SEE: http://www.thesilverbowl.com/documents/1770July30-OLIVER-OLIVER-Laragh.html Who was Arthur OLIVER – since he lived at Ballinahonebeg, he has to be related to this lot, but at present I don’t know how.

 

Thanks to an email 2009 Jan 22 from Mary Kerly, I know that in 1779 a John OLIVER was paying £30 per annum for Creevy Mill[1]. He was probably too young at age 15 to be the John OLIVER (1764-abt1798) who was the son of the aforementioned Joseph OLIVER (1727-abt1795) & Jane OATES (1727-bef1798), both of Ballinahonebeg, Co. Armagh. Is he another son of Andrew?

 

So, lets back up a bit. When did the OLIVERs arrive and when were they gone? Again, thanks to Mary Kerly, I know that their names did not surface as one of the principal farmers in Creevy in the 1663 records. There is a locally known story[2] that the OLIVERs were said to be descendants of Cromwellian settlers, but this is a version that I have never been able to substantiate (not that it might not turn out to be true). Our family version is that the OLIVER family members were Huguenots. When they arrived is anyone’s guess, but at least it seems that they did not root at Creevy prior to 1663.

 

In spite of several OLIVER deeds showing OLIVER interests in the linen industry in Monaghan, there were only 5 OLIVERs in Monaghan recorded as Irish Flax Growers in 1796:

 

Surname

First Name

Parish/Barony

County

Oliver

James

Magheross[3]

Monaghan

Oliver

Mary

Magheracloone

Monaghan

Oliver

James

Clontibret[4]

Monaghan

Oliver

David

Ematris[5]

Monaghan

Oliver

Robert[6]

Magheross

Monaghan

Oliver

William[7]

Ematris

Monaghan

 

 

Again, to lean on the work done by Mary Kerly:

 

In the PRONI (Belfast) Records of the Shirley Estate there are numerous books of rentals for the 1800's recording townland, tenants, acreage and rental payment. The following is some information I have recorded from these books

 

1824 Rentals Creeves (sic) (Ref. D/3531/R/3/1, Page 140) had four different divisions (Creeves Crawley, Creeves Rooney, Creeves Swinburn & Creeves Mill Holdings). Benjamin Oliver is listed as the tenant of Creeves Mill Holdings and the holding consisted of 13acres 1rood 13perches.  In the Tithe Applotments of Donaghmoyne Parish (1824) the townlands are listed in the same fashion with the spelling of "Creeves" as "Creevy" and Benjamin Oliver as the tenant (acreage is not given only amount Tithes payable).

 

Given this, it is curious that a Brian OLIVER is recorded in a local document about Creevy[8]. I suspect this may be a conflation of two names and that it should actually be Benjamin OLIVER. Brian is a first name that I have not seen in that era in combination with the surname OLIVER.

 

By the time of Griffiths Valuation in 1861, Robert OLIVER is the OLIVER person of record at Creevy, although there are still plenty of other OLIVERs in nearby townlands. He is shown leasing house and lands at Creevy with a valuation of £3.10.0 from Rt. Hon Edward LUCAS. The house is valued only at £0.10.0. It is more likely that he lived at Shanco, Parish of Magheross where he leased a house valued at £15.10.0 on 22 acres from Evelyn P. SHIRLEY. Regardless, the heyday of the OLIVERs at Creevy was clearly over.

 

At the time of Griffiths, a Joseph OLIVER still held corn and flax mills at nearby Reduff valued at £3.0.0 but he more likely lived at Drumillard in a house leased from William HUGHES and valued at £12.15.0. Both townlands are in the Parish of Agnamullen. What pricks my curiosity here is that Thomas OLIVER (1741-1826) who married Margaret McCLELLAND (1750-1827) was born in Aughnamullen, Co. Monaghan of an unknown OLIVER (but my hunch would be the Andrew OLIVER who married Elinor DAWSON). This Thomas OLIVER has no son named Joseph, so we are still back at square one here.

 

GRIFFITHS VALUATIONS

For a more complete version, SEE: http://www.thesilverbowl.com/maps/Monaghan-Griffiths-OLIVER.html

Surname

First Name

Townland

Parish

County

Oliver

Benjamin

Kilcrow

Clontibret

Monaghan

Oliver

Elizabeth

Cordressigo

Ematris

Monaghan

Oliver

James

Drumgurra

Magheross

Monaghan

Oliver

James

Lisnafeddaly

Magheross

Monaghan

Oliver

James

Mullaghcroghery

Magheross

Monaghan

Oliver

Joseph

Drumillard

Aghnamullen

Monaghan

Oliver

Joseph

Faulkland

Donagh

Monaghan

Oliver

Joseph

Reduff

Aghnamullen

Monaghan

Oliver

Robert

Creeve

Clontibret

Monaghan

Oliver

Robert

Mullaghcroghery

Magheross

Monaghan

Oliver

Robert

Shanco

Magheross

Monaghan

Oliver

Robert

Shanco

Magheross

Monaghan

Oliver

Robert

Tanmacnally

Ematris

Monaghan

Oliver

William

Crossaghy

Clontibret

Monaghan

Oliver

William

Darraghlan

Kilmore

Monaghan

 



[1] A list was attached to an Agent’s letter to the Landlord (Shirley) Ref D/3531/A/4

[2] Donaghmoyne Bulletin No 8207, 14 Feb 1982

[3] The townland of Shanco is in Magheross and is where a Robert OLIVER held leases in Griffiths. Also the townlands of Drumgurra, Lisnafeddaly, Mullaghcroghery were leased in Griffiths by a James OLIVER. I suspect the OLIVERs of the Flax & Griffiths records will turn out to be related.

[4] When I look at the townlands in the Parish of Clontibret, I see none that are directly related to OLIVERs, but Cordevlish does leap out as one that was tied into the linen industry and also to various other family members.

[5] It is possible that this townland in the Parish of Ematris which was connected to David OLIVER was either Tanmacnally or Cordressigo. A Robert OLIVER and an Elizabeth OLIVER show up as the respective lessees of these townlands in the Parish of Ematris in Griffiths. Elizabeth held a lease of 9 acres from Lord Cremorne and the house was valued at £0.10.0; Robert leased in common with three others (CLARKE, CONNOLLY, CONNOR) five lots that were all less than an acre in size and contained two structures valued at £0.15.0.

[6] Robert OLIVER held leases recorded in Griffiths in the townland of Shanco , Parish of Magheross.

[7] It is possible that the William OLIVER (abt 1730-1816) who was the brother of David OLIVER, but there are probably also other candidates.

[8] Donaghmoyne Bulletin No 8207, 14 Feb 1982

 

 

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